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Post by Kyzrati on Dec 29, 2012 11:47:50 GMT -5
Ah, I hadn't yet realized that *both* could be useful. Guess it's because so far I haven't gone into the details of designing multiple versions of the same weapon type, opting to just make new/different types of weapons instead ;p
I can see the advantages of both now, but that does start to get fairly complicated. I've copied down your ideas and will revisit the issue when I get to refactoring that. Obviously we'll try to accommodate as many possibilities as we can.
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Post by 10101 on Dec 29, 2012 12:36:17 GMT -5
Could be done by using the ammo for distance and the range from the weapon as modifier in percent.
Only problem would be, that the sawn off shotgun would have shorter range but not with a wider arc.
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Post by Aves Dominari on Jan 23, 2013 13:34:16 GMT -5
Speaking of shotguns and arcs... I did some testing with the shotgun to see if the child particles could actually hurt anything, and it turns out that the only particle that deals damage is the original one. I was hoping to make some scatter weapons (similar to the Elder's Hatred spell from Aggression), so is it possible to spawn multiple damaging particles without the use of special abilities?
A much more direct question, by the by, is whether I can make any weapons other than the blaster launcher follow waypoints or if that's a hardcoded property.
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Post by 10101 on Jan 23, 2013 17:57:42 GMT -5
Did you try to make a weapon using the system of the flamethrower editing the particle effect in a way it looks like a stream of projectiles? It's just theory, but perhaps that could enable things like machinegun fullautomatic firemode.
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Post by Kyzrati on Jan 23, 2013 20:13:08 GMT -5
Speaking of shotguns and arcs... I did some testing with the shotgun to see if the child particles could actually hurt anything, and it turns out that the only particle that deals damage is the original one. I was hoping to make some scatter weapons (similar to the Elder's Hatred spell from Aggression), so is it possible to spawn multiple damaging particles without the use of special abilities? Yes, the original particle is the only one that carries damage information, so with a standard weapon, right now all you can do to get multiple projectiles is the snap shot (consecutive, obviously). I will eventually add scatterable multi-particle shots as a standard option for weapons, but for now the only way to do that is through SA. Maybe I'll put this in R9. A much more direct question, by the by, is whether I can make any weapons other than the blaster launcher follow waypoints or if that's a hardcoded property. Any weapon can do this. It's currently set in the Trajectory column, where you indicate the maximum number of waypoints allowed. See how the Blaster has 9.
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Post by Aves Dominari on Jan 23, 2013 21:32:12 GMT -5
Oohh, awesome. Sucks about the scatter weapons but I can live with it. Thanks!
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Post by 10101 on Jan 24, 2013 2:54:45 GMT -5
Here is the Al Capone style machinegun:
items.xt
"Fullauto. machinegun" WE - gray_6 8 8 6 2 H 20 0 0 "Machinegun" 1 0 - 999 55 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 15 - - Melee 100 30 MB -1 Throw - - 0 0 - - - - "spews forth a jet of lead" - - - - - - - - - "Machinegun Ammo" AM - gray_6 18 10 2 1 H 8 0 0 - - 3 Spread2_Machinegun 0 0 0 0 0 0 AP 30 0 0 "stream of bullets" Machinegun - 0 0 - 0 Throw - - 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
explosions.xt
Machinegun AP 30 0 3 0 Invisible_Blast 0 - "stream of bullets" - -
particles3D.xt
{ ?X ?COL1 ?COL2 ?COL3 ?COL4 } { Machinegun gray_7 gray_7 gray_7 gray_7 } Gun2 GEN INF 100 50 CONST 50 0 0 1 CONST , - 1 SET grey_7 - - - NONE - - - - NONE - - - - NONE - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spread2_?X PRO INF 0 0 CONST 2 0 1000 1 NONE - - 0 NONE - - - - NONE - - - - NONE - - - - NONE - - - - Gun2 TIME 20 10 -3 0 - - - T_OFF_R 2 1 0 - - - - - + Gun2 TIME 20 10 -3 0 - - - T_OFF_R 2 1 0 + Gun2 TIME 20 10 -3 0 - - - T_OFF_R 2 1 0 + Gun2 TIME 20 10 -3 0 - - - T_OFF_R 2 1 0 {/TEMPLATE}
Far from perfect, but looks really nice. As the damage is done by the invisible explosion, you'll hit yourself, if the enemy stays too close. A nice quick proxy.
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Post by 10101 on Aug 18, 2013 1:15:40 GMT -5
What exactly does 'Reload' in the 'Ammo'-part of the file?
Looks like Burst-Salvo + Traject(-1) doesn't work together properly.
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Post by Kyzrati on Aug 18, 2013 3:13:50 GMT -5
"Reload" is short for "Reloadable," and if it's set false the weapon cannot be unloaded/loaded manually. Currently you'll notice that I set all weapon modules to false, and normal item weapons to true, even though the fact that the module bodypart cannot be used to do that already means you can't unload/load those. It could be used to make a weapon that is impossible to reload through normal means, but doesn't disappear like it would if you use the weapon-is-ammo setting.
Odd that a -1 trajectory wouldn't be compatible with salvos, since they should be using the same code as straight trajectories. I guess I'll have to try one out. (Unless I recently broke salvos completely--haven't tested them specifically since that last crash issue.)
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Post by Kyzrati on Aug 18, 2013 3:25:16 GMT -5
Ah, I believe I've figured out what you mean. Salvos with parabolic trajectories are working, you just can't tell they are because whatever particle you're using isn't staggered. When you fire a salvo, the game actually fires *all* the projectiles at once, and it's up to you to use a projectile particle that has a random delay. As an example see the "Multibeam" particle used in Ground Zero. It has a "Delay" value of -2000, which means that while fired simultaneously, each projectile will not actually start moving until some random time from 0~2000 ms from when you trigger it. (Negative delay values are random 0~X, while positive values are static.)
This method is better than having the game stagger it for you automatically, since you have more control over the rate of the salvo and what it looks like.
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Post by 10101 on Aug 18, 2013 8:38:08 GMT -5
In this Version of 'Terror' you'll find an prototype of an Hovertank beneath the Lightning. It has a Weapon with 8 shots and an ammo rack with additional ammo. Despite the fact that reload is set to 0, you can reload that weapon after you shot the last shell. It also has a smoke mortar that fires 3 smokegrenades in a salvo. It's ammo uses the 'Heavy_AP' particle. Sometimes it works perfectly, sometimes it seems to fire only one grenade (perhaps all 3 at the same cell?) but sometimes it looks like some or all of the shells are shot straight like they weren't traject -1 (especially, if there is somthing above that would block the arc). Attachments:
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Post by Kyzrati on Aug 18, 2013 16:34:53 GMT -5
I assume you are just trying to point out an issue with the Reload=0 value by saying your tank is able to reload from its rack, since that's what you want the tank to be able to do, yes? I notice that the weapon cannot be *unloaded*, but loading it does work. I believe that I was assuming if you couldn't remove ammo from its weapon then you wouldn't be able to load more ammo, but I seem to have overlooked the fact that you could just use up all the ammo first then load it again... That's also the idea behind the body part "unloadable" setting--it only determines whether a part can be used to unload a weapon, so if an entity lacks one it's unable to unload weapons, but that doesn't stop it from loading one. I'll do something about that, but for now I suppose this doesn't really impact you other than making it impossible to unload your tank's ammo manually (which you should be able to fix by simply changing your Ammo Rack inventory slot's "Unload" setting to 1). I should still look into fixing up this system though. You are correct in that the triple smoke mortar might not look like it works correctly because, yes, multiple shots can hit the same target and if fired at the same time, they'll be traveling along the same path at the same time so you won't see them individually. That's why salvo weapon particles should almost always use a delay for the projectile. One exception would be if you intentionally set the accuracy extremely low so that the weapon will almost always miss, sending the projectiles to different random places due to the "miss" code. Although I also used a delay for it, this is also the concept behind the rocket array in Ground Zero: Because it fires so many of them I set the accuracy very low, causing them to scatter all over the place. I think you should lower your mortar accuracy as well for a similar reason (the radius is so wide it will still be plenty useful--besides, it can't miss by *that* much). That and maybe make a copy of the projectile particle and add some delay, though I can see how firing these all at the same time is cool, too, so perhaps a very low accuracy will be enough to do the trick. About the straight-firing parabolas, that is normal behavior. Unlike X-COM where the arc can be blocked and prevent you from firing (which was just annoying, especially when the target wasn't very far away and you should be able to, for example, toss a nade through a nearby window to the ground), in X@COM the ideal parabola is first calculated, and if it's blocked, the game will raise and lower the trajectory looking for other routes that are not blocked. The further from the "ideal" trajectory, the worse the accuracy penalty. Then you have to remember if you miss, then it's possible that the "miss" trajectory could send it into a ceiling or roof and stop it prematurely. I wrote about this on the blog when it was implemented like... two years ago :) On another note, when I opened your file I noticed that among your additions is a "Cevlar West". I think you mean "Kevlar Vest", nless the misspelling is intentional for some reason.
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Post by Kyzrati on Aug 18, 2013 17:57:00 GMT -5
You'll want to make sure to change that Reload value back to 1, since the next version implements it correctly--if 0 a weapon cannot be reloaded (even with compatible ammo). I realized that the body part and item values can serve different purposes allowing "reloadability" to be controlled from two different perspectives (entity vs. item) so they're both in.
Oh, and happy birthday :)
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Post by 10101 on Aug 19, 2013 1:26:00 GMT -5
Thanks - Shouldn't those straight throws be shortened in maximum range?
- Would there be a way to avoid dropping the ammo to the ground while still being able to load/reload?
- Another thing is: reloading doesn't cost any TU for some reason. I did set the exchange value between Wpn_Module_1 and Ammo rack to 55.
- Fixed Reload,Unload and the Kevlar vest. And now lets see what happens, when i remove the accuracy of that mortar.
PS: It doesn't feel right, when the grenade flies straight through a complete building passing two windows and exploding behind the line of max-range. Also the spreading with accuracy 1 often isn't really far. Perhaps i should wait for it to be able to be used as SA, so i can CAST_ON_CELL and AOE=X but then i can't make that a trajectory projectile.. Think, i should stay with the Smokebox.
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Post by 10101 on Aug 19, 2013 12:38:01 GMT -5
Ok, the second Point has been fixed by adjusting the inventory.xt. You don't need to remove something from a slot to reload a weapon. NoItem has been set to 0 so the smokebox works, that's ok for me. And i finally found the TUs for reloading.
So that leaves me with some balancing of that weapon.
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